Chinese Medicine Notes

Richard Goodman

Posted on July 27, 2009 by Yael

The first me I heard Richard Goodman’s name was through a comment on a previous post about books here on CMNotes.
AncinetDoc mentioned Richard’s book, and I started sniffing around.
Pretty soon I started following Richard on a regular basis through his blog and through Twitter, mainly because he talks about interesting things, and also because he’s really a nice guy.

Richard, 34, started law school and switched to his true calling, studying Chinese medicine.
His journey is an interesting one, one that took him from the USA to Taiwan and got him writing books to help people read and understand the classical Chinese texts, such as Classical Chinese Medical Texts Vol. I.
Vol. II is in the making as I write this post.

I asked Richard to answer a number of questions, and being the nice guy that he is, he didn’t complain about the long list of questions I sent him. He actually answered them all.
I hope you enjoy this interview.

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Please explain the path that leads from plans to become a lawyer to studying Chinese medicine.
I was very interested in the law when I was young because I saw it as a career where I could spend a lifetime solving complex problems. It didn’t take long of working in the legal system to find out that my ideas and the system itself were not on the same page. I had always been interested in Chinese medicine and remember getting a catalog from PCOM when I was just 17 years old. My parents said no way, but as fate would have it a car accident at the age of 21 led me to an acupuncture office. Within six months I was enrolled in a program and I felt like I had found exactly what I was meant to be doing.

How did you come to study the Chinese language? Was it because you wanted to translate the classics? How did it happen? And why did you end up focusing on translations?
Within my first year of studies, I started reading translations of the classics. I just didn’t get it-any of it. I didn’t know why and told myself that I would eventually learn Chinese well enough to read the classics myself so that I could see if there was really anything worth studying. At that point, I was convinced the classics were filled with old superstitions which we had moved past, but some part of me must not have believed that.  I vowed early in my training that I would go to China and learn to read the classics after 5 years of practice. I only made it to three years and decided that there was still way too much for me to learn. I heard that learning classical Chinese in China is nearly impossible, so I ended up in Taiwan.

At this point, I have no interest in doing translations. My interest is in helping people to read the classics themselves. Translation is just one of the tools, and I would say one of the less important tools, that I’m using to do this. I firmly believe that with enough determination, any student or practitioner of Chinese medicine can learn to read the classics themselves. 

Did you study TCM? Stems and Branches? Five Elements? All together?
My first year and a half of studies were in TCM. I figured out pretty quickly that I was only getting a piece of what Chinese medicine had to offer. I don’t really know how I knew this, it just seemed so obvious to me at the time. After that first year and a half, I changed schools and began reading everything I could get my hands on. I studied every style offered and read every book I could get my hands on. I wanted to be a flexible practitioner-everyone seemed to have a style or school that they were identified with, and I was never really interested in that because I saw all of them as limited. I wanted to learn it all, and I still do.

Who are the teachers that influenced you the most? Were there any mentors along the way, who had an impact on your career?
There was one teacher, Lyndsay Tunnel, who said something to me that completely changed my path. I told him about my plans to learn the language, and that I really wanted to raise the bar of what people were doing with Chinese medicine. What’s funny to me is at the time, I had no skills to raise the bar on anything-I wouldn’t even say it that way anymore. He looked straight into my eyes and said, “You can. You have the mind for it and are perfect for it. Go do it.”  Never had anyone boosted me in that way and I still feel chills when I think about it. Lyndsay passed away less than a year after I graduated, but what he said and the way he said it was enough to motivate me for a lifetime.

Your work at your clinic sounds interesting. Why did you stop?
I loved working in my clinic, but after about a year and a half I felt stagnant. I wanted to learn more and I was convinced the only way to really get more was to learn Chinese. I had literally read every book on Chinese medicine in English by then and was finding that everything new coming out at the time was just a rehashing of things I had already read elsewhere. Learning to read classical texts has opened up a whole new world for me. My whole attitude and approach has changed. It’s the best decision I’ve ever made. I miss working with people regularly in a way that a clinic allows for, but for now, I’m not willing to be tied down to a clinic. I’m much more interested in finishing the work I have already come so far to do, and I think for me, a clinic would distract from that right now.

Where does the Western world stand in terms of knowledge and understanding the classics? How much do we really know?
We know a fraction of what is available, and I would not limit that to the Western world. The Chinese world does not read the classics either. The reason I say this is that a few times per week, I go to a library where there are stacks and stacks of classical texts that no one is reading. I rarely run into another person there, and when I do it’s usually a graduate student from overseas doing research on a travel grant. One person could not read it all in a lifetime. What we get through textbooks is just a small piece chosen by a very small group of people. We have a long way to go, but I do not think that this is a discouraging piece of news. I think it’s exciting. Look how much we have already developed and there is still so much more to do.

Can you please tell us a bit about Windstone Press? How it started and why?
Windstone Press is actually a branch of a Taiwanese press that I have been working with for years. I had been editing and translating for some of their textbooks, which are sold here in Taiwan. I run the Chinese medicine wing now, which we are calling Windstone Press.

Please tell us a bit about Classical Chinese Medical Texts- Vol. I. What sparked the idea? What were your goals while writing it? Who will find it most helpful, do you think?
In some ways, this is the book I have always wanted to write. I had found some pretty good textbooks on classical Chinese, but most of them used the same passages from Mencius and Confucius. I found the contents really boring, and I was memorizing characters that I didn’t really need to know. One day, while studying in Hong Kong, I sat down at my computer (mostly to avoid the work I needed to do) and wrote out an outline of what a book that taught people to read the classics would look like. I had been editing and translating Chinese language textbooks for years, so this was something I had some experience with. I went through a bunch of classics that I had on my desk and started choosing texts that I thought would be easy for beginners. I used almost all of those initial texts in the book. This was at least two years before the book came out and I didn’t take it seriously. After deciding a PhD was not for me, I came back to Taiwan and in my leisure time worked on the book. At some point, I realized that what I had written could be very useful and focused on it exclusively for about 3 months until it came out.

I actually do not think this book is for everyone. I wrote this book for those who really want to go beyond what is available who enjoy authors like Claude Larre but want to look more deeply into the texts themselves. Also, it’s for those who want to go to the root of Chinese medicine and who are interested in going beyond what is available in English. In essence, this book is for those people in Chinese medicine who are completely obsessed with studying it and uncovering what is available.

And what about Vol. II?
Originally, I was planning on one large textbook. When I thought about most Chinese medicine books over 500 pages, I realized that most of them were reference books. I decided to break it into three volumes so people didn’t feel overwhelmed. Studying a language like Chinese is already quite intimidating, and a big solid book makes it seem even more intimidating. I wanted people to look at Vol. I and think they could do it. Vol. II is just an extension of what I was planning initially.

The texts I have selected for Vol. II are not much more difficult from a language perspective, but the theories presented differ greatly from what we learn in modern schools. This makes them a bit more difficult to grasp. Vol. I is pretty easy when it comes to theory, and Vol. II will give people a chance to test their ability to interpret passages that could have a variety of possible meanings.

You are settled in Taiwan- Taipei. Why?
My idea was to come to Taipei for a year and learn classical Chinese. It didn’t take me long to realize that one year was not enough, especially given that I wouldn’t be allowed to take classical courses until I had already studied for a year. All of the courses here are conducted completely in Chinese, so I added another year to my plan. I have tried to leave Taiwan twice, but each time I come back. I love living here-life is easy and everything is convenient. Right now, I stay because it’s easier for me to have access to the texts I need to do the work I want to do. If I find something new, I go to the local bookstore or library and get it. That’s not so easy to do in the US or anywhere else in the world. I do not know how long I will stay, but for now I plan on being here for the next couple of years.

In your work- do you take under consideration the work of others- such as Heiner Fruehauf, Claude Larre and Elizabeth Rochat de la Vallee?
I consider everyone who is doing serious work in the classics. I would add Paul Unschuld and Nigel Wiseman to that list. I would also add people that most Chinese medicine practitioners do not follow, such as Nathan Sivin, Ben Elman, Charlotte Furth, Vivienne Lo, Don Harper, Shigehisa Kuriyama, Volker Scheid, Marta Hanson, and a lot of other scholars who have been doing research into texts and the history of medicine. Even forgetting the classics for a moment, there is a range of scholars doing very valuable work in the history of Chinese medicine and other scholars doing work in related fields that I didn’t even mention. I think as a profession, and especially if we are going to develop a true scholar-physician trend in the West, we need a lot more training. Everything I mentioned above is available in English, and I think it’s a shame that people do not read more by China scholars.

Can you give us an example for a typical work day? So we can better understand the working process…
I love this question, because I love my typical work day. Over the last year, my daily morning habit is to go to the bus stop and go wherever the first bus to arrive takes me. I start each day without a plan. I don’t know what I’m going to do until I open my computer and start doing it. I may form a plan later in the day, but I love starting the day with no agenda. I almost always end up in a coffee shop for at least 5 hours everyday because I can get more work done there.

Over the last year, most of my days are spent either reading classical texts or writing about them. I do not do much blog writing until the evening because my focus is on getting the books on my agenda finished. I spend at least one day in the library every week to look up references that I have found or sometimes I pick random books from the shelves to see what I discover. My days are filled more with reading an contemplating than writing-when I finally get to the writing part, it usually goes very fast because I have spent so much time preparing.

What does it mean, for you, to write a book?
For me, any book is a beginning to a new set of skills or knowledge. I have never read anything definitive, even if that is the intention of the author and I’m certainly not trying to write anything definitive. I wrote this book hoping to open people to new possibilities. There are as many perspectives as there are people, and the authors of classical texts are not a cohesive group at all.

I hope that people can discover a whole new world that they previously did not know existed. That is what reading the classics is like for me. Everyday, I discover something new. I have also found that the more I learn and read, the less I find I actually know. I find something that surprises me regularly. There is nothing more humbling than standing in front of thousands of texts that I have not yet read. We have not even begun to get into the depths of this medicine.

How is it to write a blog? Why did you decide to write a blog alongside writing books?
I decided to start a regular blog after I finished the first book. I had already started one before, but I wasn’t serious about it. There was a period of about 3 weeks from the time I finished the book to the time it came out when it was being printed. I was not yet ready to start on the second book and everyone was telling me I should blog, so I did. I was completely resistant to the idea at first because I wanted to focus on books, but I have found that I can write things on my blog that just would not fit into a book.

The best thing about blogging for me is that, like most people, I get a lot of ideas that I can forget about within hours. A blog allows me to put those ideas down and publish them right away. I used to carry around notebooks filled with ideas for things I wanted to write about, and now I use a blog to put those ideas out right away. The reason I keep blogging is because I can interact with people from all over the world who are interested in the same things I am interested in. It’s also my way of reconnecting with what’s going in other places with Chinese medicine. Living in Taipei cuts me off from Chinese medicine in the Western world. Blogging is one of the ways I can feel the pulse of Chinese medicine in the West.

For those of us who are more into philosophy and less into clinical work, what do you suggest we to broaden our minds?
When I was a graduate student, a teacher asked us to pick our favorite book from the semester and present a report on why we liked it. After all of us had done our reports, he then told us to come back the next week and tear it apart, present all of the holes in the logic, and give ideas on how it might have been a better book. This exercise completely changed the way I read anything. One of the trends I see today is that people tend to pick an author or teacher in Chinese medicine and follow that person almost religiously. They would never look at their teacher critically and follow what they say almost without question.

I would suggest those who want a more broad theoretical view to look at all sides of what any teacher presents.
We in Chinese medicine are lacking critical analysis. Usually, when I see criticisms, they are rather weak or personal and not usually well informed. People are using opinions and offer no real evidence. So first, I think developing the ability to critically analyze without necessarily being critical of the author or teacher is a very helpful skill. Every teacher or author is limited in their perspective; I am limited by my emphasis on texts and pretty much ignore the oral tradition because I have no interest in researching that. Volker Scheid is doing some great work in that regard. My current book, and likely future books, will completely ignore the “religious” views of the body. So we can find limits everywhere and also become aware of our own limits.

Second, I would encourage people to read outside of Chinese medicine. If we ever want to develop a scholar-physician movement, which is something I don’t think we are even close to yet, we might start reading more from academics. Books in the history of ideas and philosophy of science are very helpful in orienting Chinese medicine and science. Reading a lot from a variety of authors is probably the best way to broaden one’s perspective.

What are the must have books, in your opinion, that have to do with understanding Chinese philosophy and medicine?
I think the first one everyone should start with is Unschuld’s Medicine in China: A History of Ideas. This is a very basic Chinese medical history book and without knowledge of where these ideas existed in time, it’s really hard to approach philosophy and orient its relationship to medicine. Chinese medicine has become a “melting pot” of ideas. This sounds good on the surface, but I feel it really weakens our understanding of the development of Chinese medicine. For example, I wonder how many people can name the so-called four great masters and give their time period, let alone give some possible reasons for their ideas in a historical framework? We are given their herbal formulas in the same chapters with formulas that are around 1,000 years older and with those developed less than 100 years ago as if they were created at the same time.

Second, I would suggest people read everything by Nathan Sivin. His writings are excellent and he has great guides to doing research and a bibliography of books he suggests. Sivin is retired now, but thanks to the internet people can still learn from him. I think some of the best writing on Chinese medicine and its related philosophies are at this website.

Third, I really like the book by Ben Elman titled On Their Own Terms: Science in China, 1550-1900. I think we tend to overestimate the influence the “West” had on science and medicine in China, and Elman has done thorough research which suggests, among other things, that the Chinese were interested in science from the West but certainly drew boundaries “on their own terms.” I find this to be one of the most concrete books on science and China ever written. If people want more, then I really like John Henderson’s The Development and Decline of Chinese Cosmology. This is a great overview of how cosmology changed over time in China. You will probably have to get this in your library, but I encourage people who really want to become scholar-physicians to become very acquainted with their local librarian and take advantage of inter-library loan. Read the annotations of all of these books and you will find even more to read.

*Photo: Yali Shi